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Post by Thomas More on Oct 26, 2015 14:37:00 GMT
Hi everyone.
I'd like to welcome discussion on the re-drafting of the York Assembly's charter. I would like for us to create a document that tells mages outside of our immediate area what we're about. We are no longer in the bubble made by the barrier of the Sarcophagus of the Pale King. There are going to be all sorts of new challenges to face, all over which we will need to take ownership. I would like for us to discuss what we think of ourselves as a group and decide together how we're going to move forward, which only happens if we can create a continuing dialogue.
I'd like to start with the mission. It feels to me from my time in Toronto that there is a general desire to protect Toronto and the agency of those that live here with the same cause. We have defended the sleepers from Seer and Scelesti influence, staved off the machinations of demons and Mages of the Abyss and have set right the damage done to the Shadow and continue to champion justice for those that have been wronged by others of the Awakened nation, including outsiders.
What do other York voters consider the most important ideals of the York Assembly? Do we want to encourage a safe haven for personal projects? Do we feel that mages living within our borders are responsible for anything to the York Assembly?
Thomas More
Silver Ladder Syndic
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devee
New Member
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Post by devee on Oct 26, 2015 15:57:13 GMT
As a new member to to the city, here is my impression so far of what it means to be a part of the York Assembly and why it appeals to me (and presumably others):
- it is an organization that encourages a safe haven for personal projects
- its members seem to care very little for status, organizational exclusivity and power plays; cabals are not competing, Orders are not competing... it's a very "live and let live" city
- it is an organization made up of active members that work together to resolve issues (it appears that at least 60% of its membership is actively involved at all times... maybe more?)
I am starting to feel at home here because of the freedoms I am provided, and the respect given to me for being a willworker and an active member. Knowledge and lore are not so tightly kept locked up here, probably thanks to the minimal stratification that is present in the Assembly. This could be a potential model for the good parts of democracy in action...
My concerns:
- Defence
I was surprised that I was met so openly and with little to no questions about my identity, past, intentions, etc. I worry about the long-term health of the Assembly.
Just like the human body or a computer, there are harmful organisms which we wish to keep out of our system in order to preserve health, function and life. One method of protecting a system is to screen any incoming data for potential harm (*Devee elaborates a bit further on the concept and mechanics of virus scanning, and other potential modalities used to protect computer systems)*.
Maybe the Assembly has expert "sceeners" and I never noticed the process.
The issue with screening is that they can generally only look for and identify threats that they are familiar with, and potentially similarly-typed ones; they are not capable of identifying completely new threats, never before seen. Also, they may flag something as harmful when in fact it is merely mundane with a similar feature/piece of code. I recognize that screening isn't 100% foolproof, but it's a start.
How do we go about screening mages, spirits, people we deal with, etc... I don't know precisely. That's something we can discuss.
I think a good place to start is to think about setting up screening practices to protect key buildings, meeting spaces, resources, and memberships (i.e. St Lawrence Hall, the Lorehouse, cabals, becoming member of the Assembly).
- General outlines of crimes and potential consequences
It appears that the Assembly does not have a penal code system in place. This may not be a bad thing!
But systems help to quicken the execution of a program, so that the system can be free to perform its other tasks. Maybe we should consider having a general outline on the types of actions that the Assembly considers to be a crime, and a general idea of the range of consequences that may fit such a crime.
Perhaps we could create a program/database to store incidents and their consequences, so we can see what "standard practice" for us kinda looks like. Similar to the human court system, where cases are documented and categorized, and legal experts can turn to them to see the rulings of similar cases.
That's it for now... my main concern for the Assembly is its maintained health.
- can we install preventative health measures?
- is our active/effective membership sustainable over the next 5, 10, 20, 100 years? (right now, it seems to be sustaining on individuals' feelings of responsibility).
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Post by kainmiarex on Oct 27, 2015 0:23:13 GMT
Hang on... this Assembly was formed LONG before the barrier went up. The Charter was not made to reflect a group encircled by a bubble, a group that was isolationist. It was formed to pledge protection to Toronto - fellow Mages and Sleepers/Sleepwalkers alike - against all enemies. I'm not sure where the problem is with what was originally written.
Has something happened to make us different in a way that necessitates change in a document discussing our philosophy? Has our mission changed? Have our values relating to the city and its inhabitants changed?
We've already had the discussion about new laws, and people have said "meh" or "no" more often than "yes." So I'm just not sure why we're now rethinking the whole definition of what we are (an Assembly, right?) and why we're here. The only thing I really see that's changed in our mandate over the past 100 years is that our borders have expanded, so we have made it our mission to protect more people than originally planned.
In regards to defence, while I understand the need for proactive security measures, I will say this: in every Mage space I've been in, all have found some way to treat me as an outsider except the Assembly. As soon as we start screening people and asking them questions and probing their past, we will inevitably become more like a clique where you must pass an interview or test to join. The only requirement right now is that you want to protect the city and its Sleepers, and yes that's dangerous. But it's also something that provides people with an easy sense of belonging. If someone isn't a member, it's probably by choice and not because of us telling them no (with some exceptions... cough Vladimir). It's also true that if we let people in easily we can watch them easily, and they will be held to what few laws we have. Letting them join doesn't mean we trust them implicitly, but it's a step in the right direction (to me anyways).
Best,
Kaïn M.
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Post by Thomas More on Oct 27, 2015 14:10:54 GMT
To be candid, I haven't seen a charter. Or a mission or anything describing the Assembly's wishes. And I bring up the topic to discuss how we feel about the current state of the Assembly. I'm not asking to start codifying laws. Nor am I saying we should change anything at all. I'm just opening it up to discussion to see what people think about it now. How can we know if our mission has changed unless we discuss?
The reason I bring it up is because I worry that those outside our borders (and inside if Bloom is an example) hold the current mandate in contempt. What's the harm in reaffirming what the current Assembly body wants? Is it so strange that the feelings of the Assembly may have changed over the last hundred years? And even if it hasn't, now that the barrier is down, I think it's important for the Awakened nation, as well as its enemies, to hear us reaffirm our protectorate.
I agree that it defeats the purpose of the Assembly to screen our members. And that historically, the Assembly has not been interested in drafting a hard-coded legal codex. It seemed strange to me at first, as though there could be no crimes. But the Assembly clearly does have a stance on what is or is not permissible and deliberates on a case-by-case basis. The spirit of the laws exist in the collective of the Assembly, and even though there is no law to forbid members undermining an Assembly vote, it is still considered a punishable crime. But that process is, itself, something we can describe to foreign mages that are not used to our form of governance. What are we to tell the Light's Refuge when their members ask what's permissible or forbidden in our territory? We can hardly just tell them "we have no laws."
I appreciate that this is just the way it's been, but it's really hard for new or travelling mages to intuitively understand how our Assembly works. And I see no harm bringing it up for discussion.
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Post by kainmiarex on Oct 28, 2015 2:41:58 GMT
I believe the Charter was publicly re-released after Churchill was defeated in an election for Speaker to the late Neme John. It should be publicly accessible at the very least in the Lorehouse and on all the servers we use to interact online. It is true, however, that it is not a frequently accessed document. It's like the mundane Canadian laws - no one thinks to look them up until Grade 10 civics class makes you do so. It's just not something one thinks about often enough.
Because of how open we are and how unconsciously we've all taken up a similar if not the same mantle to protect this place, there has seldom been a need to ask to see it and figure out why we're here in the first place. But it's there if you want it, and any FC should be able to help point you in the right direction. Heck, there may even be a copy sitting on a desk in one of the public reading rooms in the Athenaeum.
I'm not sure that Bloom held our mandate in contempt - she did what she did because she thought the Wyvern would betray us and do bad things to the city. In other words, in her mind she did what she did to continue to protect Toronto because she believed WE were the ones ignoring the mandate. What she really ignored was the unspoken rule/guideline/whatever that you don't fucking go and disregard a majority vote. If we've said "we're going to do X and not Y" you can't go and say "I think Y is better so I'm going to go secretly do it so that everyone else can't do X like they voted to do" and get away with it. That's not how mundane OR magical decisions work in what is supposedly a democratic country.
Best,
Kaïn M.
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Post by Thomas More on Nov 2, 2015 18:44:35 GMT
Okay, well I'd be glad to see the charter as it is now. My original concern is that it reflects the people who were here at the time it was created which was some time ago. Who's the longest tenured active mage in Toronto? Has anyone who attends our Assembly meetings actually seen this charter? How can we know if it reflects us at all?
And still I see no harm is setting out what we believe in writing. We all know there's power in putting words to ideas. Not to mention that even though we know who we are, foreign mages will not. Can you give me reasons why reviewing our mandate and putting it to words will hurt our Assembly? I'm not trying to be difficult. I just really don't understand your protestations on this. But you have raised some good points nonetheless.
This isn't a difficult or complicated process. I imagined it only as a listing of points that we hold self-evident but may not ever have voiced. Here's what I mean:
1. The York Assembly (the "Assembly") is an institution bound by the borders of Toronto, Ontario, recognized by La Clémence Souveraine, the High Consilium of Canada, as an offical domain of the Canadian Pentacle.
2. The Assembly's mandate is to protect the freedom and health of all sleepers with its domain, as well as mages aligned with the Pentacle and all declared supernatural or outsider allies.
3. The Assembly accepts all mages of the Pentacle who wish to participate in its meetings on a purely volunteer basis. There are no requisites to do so, save ensuring that meetings are not unduly disrupted.
4. No residential requirements will be imposed on any mages aligned with the Pentacle within the Assembly's borders, save abiding by public Assembly decisions. Contradictions to votes and common laws are welcome to be heard during any of the Assembly's gatherings.
These things are, from my interactions with those of our Assembly, fairly self-evident. These are statements of the current situation and not changes at all. Do you think this is something that might help?
-Thomas More
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